Ok Ill post something controversial that I thought up when reading Jonah recently. In that book, God says hes going to destroy Nineveh because everyone there is evil. Jonah goes and warns the people that God is going to destroy them, and then they all change their ways and worship God. And then God changes his mind and doesn't destroy the city, which makes Jonah angry because now he looks stupid.
Anyway, all throughout the Bible God says that unless you believe in him and follow his commands, you will go to Hell. But one thing none of us can say for sure is that God won't change his mind. In the end he might say, "oh all right, everyone get in here (Heaven). I just said that so hopefully a lot of you would change your ways."
Of course almost every indication in the Bible says that he WON'T do that, but my point is that he can, and might, do that. We should all live our lives based on the information that we must follow God to go to Heaven, but leave open the possibility that others too might join us.
This thinking is helpful when working in a place where 99% of the population is not Christian, and hundreds of them die every day not ever having heard the word of God. Ok Ive said enough!
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Here's my first thoughts:
Jesus said in Matthew 5 to "Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one." And knowing that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever" (Hebrews 13:8), I'm personally pretty convinced that He won't change His mind, nonetheless agreeing that He can if He wanted.
However, just the other day, I was thinking about those people who never have heard about Jesus. But maybe we're assuming that these people really have never heard about Jesus before they died. We're not with them every second of the day to ascertain that they had not heard about Jesus. Maybe they had heard in at least one point of their lifetime, but it was so illogical that they couldn't or wouldn't understand it.
All I know is what Jesus says in Mark 16:16: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned" and in essence, everywhere else in the Bible.
But it's still difficult to accept that God will condemn those people who haven't had a chance to hear about Jesus (assuming that this does happen). After all, 2 Peter 3:9 says that "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
Incidentally, the "day of the Lord" or Judgment Day obviously has not yet come. Does physical death end our opportunity to tell people about Jesus? It does seem like we're in the "last days," but perhaps even after we experience death, we will still have the opportunity to tell people about Jesus. What do you think we'll be doing between physical death and Judgment Day?
Ditto to what kirsten said. To add, I think ultimately living Christ-like lives doesn't EARN us a place in heaven. Jesus already took care of that. Living Christ-like lives is an EVIDENCE of truly believing in the saving work of Christ. If you say you are a Christian and don't live like one, BEWARE (i have to check myself everyday on this). Also, i think we will be surprised at some of the people who actually make it to heaven and those who don't.
We can ask a lot of additional questions about what if people never got a chance to hear the gospel and other scenarios that may put some unbelievers in an unfair positions. Ultimately, we trust God who is just and good and knows everything to judge rightly.
Oh yeah one more thing. I think that when we are on earth, God offers a lot of opportunities to mankind to turn and repent. The story of Jonah is merely one example of such. But Jesus does talk about the one day when he will separate the wheat from the chaff and all that kinda stuff. So while we are on earth we still get a shot. But i can't help but sense finality in the way that Jesus (remember the story where the rich man asked Abraham to get Lazarus to dip his finger in water and cool off his tongue) and John (in Revelations) talked about hell.
I agree that God could change His mind if He wanted to, and I know it seems like He does quite a bit in the old testament, but I'm still of the opinion that He won't change His mind about who enters heaven. Mostly it's because it doesn't really seem all that fair.
You hear it all the time, that the Christian walk is a "straight and narrow path" and that while unconditional love and salvation is great, it isn't an easy choice because it also comes with persecution and condemnation (to different degrees of course, depending on the person and the situation).
So I guess what I'm saying is, how fair would it be for people who basically turned their backs on God, indulging in all sorts of behaviors and sins, to be allowed into heaven? It just doesn't make sense to me. And as for those who have never heard about Jesus, I agree with Kirsten and Andre.
I also think that we serve a just God, and if it's really the case that someone has absolutely never heard about Christ their whole lives (!Kung Bushmen come to mind), then He might have a slightly different judgement for them, because He judges everyone individually, not as a group.
But I guess really, we won't know until that day comes, when we're standing before the throne ourselves...
Ahh.. much to ponder. I am reminded of Romans 1:20 which says "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
My understanding of that verse is that, everyone has heard. Whether or not audible spoken, they have (or will) clearly seen God's eternal power and divine nature.
Yet, Jesus instructs us to go into judea and samaria and the ends of the earth. Why would he instruct us to do that if everyone was already supposed to know?
So, here is where this can get complicated... predestination. Some might argue that God has already chosen certain people and those are the ones that He will reveal Himself to; the ones He will call. I personally don't agree with that. God extended salvation to the gentiles. It started with the Jews only -- if he wanted to keep it selective, He wouldn't have extended it. (Romans 1:16 ..."first for the Jews, then for the Gentile."
So, all this to say that God calls EVERYONE to Him. He might choose to inform them of Him through missionaries, called to the ends of the earth, through divine intervention (dreams, etc), and nature (which sorta falls into divine intervention I would think).
Also, Romans 5:20-21, "The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life thorugh Jesus Christ our Lord."
So, while it definately makes a point that grace increased where sin increased, it also states that, grace might reign through RIGHTEOUSNESS. The people of Ninevah repented first. When they did that, they were made righteous (i think... Jesus hadn't come yet. But in today's world, God would see them through Jesus' righteousness)
So, thanks for reading all this! :)
Evelyn
Wow lots of great responses! What a cool blog you set up Kirsten.
Its too hard to respond to everything, but one thing that jumps out at me is fairness. Our concept of fairness usually doesn't match up with God's. For example, the prodigal son. The good son stayed with his father the whole time and go no special treatment. But the horrible son had a huge party thrown for him and was treated higher than his brother. Theres lots of other parables about this too.
Of course in all of them, the person ends up coming back to God, but still we would hardly think its fair to reward sinners more than the righteous.
I like Kirsten's idea that we might still have a chance to convert people even AFTER we die! I hope we can hear more seemingly "off the wall" ideas like that which make us think, instead of the standard arguments we usually hear!
Yeah. Kinda cool thinking about our work after we pass into the more infinite life. And though it's just one of Christs parables, the dead rich man who persecuted Lazarus was denied the right to return to warn his brothers about their impending death. However, this doesn't necessarily preclude that someone (or some people) might be given such an opportunity. However, we're definitely not given any such guaranty, so Carpe Diem man. By the way, gotta believe that the coolness, adventurous nature, the true romance of the real life will kick this life to shreds. No boring elevator harp playing for the redeemed. Gotta speculate He's also got infinitely more adventurous plans for us too.
Your right about fairness too. God's sense of justice is surprising. Again a parable - this time of the hired workers. Many are called at different times of the day to come work the vineyard. All are paid the same wage. Unfair? Not to the owner. All were promised the same wage and that's what they were given.
And yeah. The testimony of nature has been given to all mankind. Once again, His grace is sufficient in all circumstances. But how much greater is the joy of those that receive the special revelation. Can't think of anything more exciting than getting to share the most awesome news with someone who's asking, wanting to know, an open door and an open heart.
For a compelling analogy that speaks with real punch, read CS Lewis's "The Great Divorce". It seems fairly clear that God will respect our choices in the matter of our acceptance of Him. If we decline His offer of life with Him, then He'll respect that choice just like He will embrace us when we do choose to humble ourselves in obedient submission. IMO, doing otherwise would be unfair and unkind. (Kinda like forcing one of my kids to slide down a waterslide or ride a collercoaster against their will. They'll get neither the pleasure of the ride, nor praise or respect for being brave.)
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